WEBVTT

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他这里面这三块也是这样
The same is true of the three pieces here.

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过去的防洪到水资源的利用
Past flood control to water use

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以及到后面自然的修复完整的河流的体
And to the back of the natural restoration of the integrity of the river body.

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注重完整的河流的体系
A system of integrated rivers

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而不是某一个锻炼
Not one of them

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再一个公众著名的参与
Another famous public participation

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还有就是注重生物但是我们现在有很多河流的规划
There is also a focus on biology, but we now have a lot of river planning.

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实际上还是忽视生物这个部分
In fact, the part of the organism is ignored.

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还有与城市的规划一体化来考虑
There is also integration with urban planning.

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甚至说日本有研究会提出来
Even said that Japan has the research association to propose.

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因为实际低碳城市按照过去的很多的记载
Because the actual low carbon city according to the past many records.

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按照流域来划分
Divide by basin

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应该是最低碳的
Should be the lowest carbon

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所以提出按流域来重新划分行政区的概念
Therefore, the concept of redividing the administrative regions according to the river basin is put forward.

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我们现在为什么提出流域的综合管理
Why do we propose integrated river basin management now?

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就是说很多行政区河流域是不重叠的
That is to say, many administrative areas and river basins do not overlap.

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但是按照自然属性来说
But by nature

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汇水区是个流域的概念
A catchment area is the concept of a basin.

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按照流域来进行综合的这种规划
A comprehensive plan of this kind based on a river basin.

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这不用说了
It goes without saying

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肯定是最低碳
Must be the lowest carbon

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因为水的流动它都是按照流域属性来分布的
Because of the flow of water, it is distributed according to the attributes of the river basin.

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那么也正是由于它法律上的变迁
So it is precisely because of its legal changes.

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这是我回国的时候整理的
It was arranged when I returned home.

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每年拆除这些硬质的人工的腹案
Annual demolition of these hard labor cases

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然后不断恢复的河流的树
And then the continuous restoration of the river's trees.

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这个时候91年实际上日本已经泡沫破灭了
By this time, in 1991, Japan had actually burst its bubble.

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但是国家每年还拿出大量的预算
But the state also has a large annual budget.

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做这样的生态的修复
To do this ecological restoration

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这就说明整个公众意识的提升
This shows that the entire public awareness of the promotion.

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再加上国家知识界学界意识到了可持续发展的重要性
In addition, the national intellectual community has realized the importance of sustainable development.

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所以它生态修复是基于原来人为干预的过重
Therefore, it is based on the original ecological restoration of human intervention too.

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然后来进行一个自然的修复
And then to do a natural repair

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所以他河流的修复几个过程的叫法
So he called the process of repairing the river

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汉字上都不一样
The Chinese characters are different.

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最早的一个说法是多自然形
One of the earliest claims was that there were many natural forms.

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形
Form

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形状上看上去像个多自然强调
Shape looks like a natural emphasis

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但是后来他们经过了大概是也是一个五年计划以上的总结
But then they went through, probably is also a five-year plan above the summary.

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把这个行去掉
Take this line out

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自然就是自然
Nature is nature.

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不是追求一种形式
Not pursuing a form

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并且它每一个过程都能够对这种规范进行一个详细的修订
And each of its processes can make a detailed revision of this specification.

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我跟日本生态合作的最好原来是我们研究室的师长
The best way to cooperate with Japan is to be the head of our research office.

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他就是日本叫捣鼓信宏
He is a Japanese by the name of Masao shin hung

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日本河流不管什么地方
Japanese rivers no matter where they are

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很多时候他一直比较签字
Most of the time he's been signing

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确认一些参数
Identify some parameters

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所以交流的时候也是提到这些这方面的一些问题
Therefore, when the exchange is also mentioned in this regard, some of the issues.

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这就是其中一个例子
This is one example.

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是城市河流
It's a city river

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还有一个我们现在谈海绵城市
There's another one we're talking about sponge city

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谈城市内涝
On urban waterlogging

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这也是一个城市河流
This is also a city river.

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九州
Kyushu

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福冈
Fukuoka

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你看这个内涝
Look at this waterlogging

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这个还是蛮严重的
This is pretty serious

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当时的一个报道的情况就是被淹的
At that time, a report of the situation is flooded.

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有
Have

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因为日本都喜欢木制的
Because Japan likes wooden ones

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一个一个的房屋吗
A house one by one?

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五百五百三十户
Five hundred and fifty thirty households

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达到总的区域的居住户数的60%以上
Reach 60% of the total number of households in the area.

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被淹的也是蛮厉害的
The drowning is also quite fierce.

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那么为什么会被淹
Then why was it flooded?

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这里边有一个弯道
There is a corner here.

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但是过去在城市防洪过程当中
But in the past, in the course of urban flood control.

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面对这样的问题
Faced with such a problem

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所有欧洲国家都犯过这样的错误
All European countries have made such mistakes.

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裁弯取直
Bending

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因为弯道的地方最容易这个水位突然上涨
Because the corners are the easiest place for this water level to suddenly rise.

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然后对周边如果没有地方
Then on the perimeter if there is no place.

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马上就会发生内涝
There will be a flood soon.

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有堤防的话
With a levee

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很可能会破地
It is likely to break the ground.

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但是恰恰是弯道的地方
But it's just the corner

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它有丰富的非常重要的物产香鱼
It's rich in very important products.

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还有一种蟹叫三太郎
There is also a kind of crab called three taro.

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谢
Thank

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所以说就不是一个简单的单一考虑
Therefore, it is not a simple single consideration.

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解决防洪的问题
Solve the problem of flood control

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我前面说了
I said earlier

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我们现在很多问题
We have a lot of problems now

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管理部门不是发生容易发生内涝
The management department is not prone to waterlogging

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那就针对内涝问题
That's for waterlogging

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把它解决了就完了
It will be over if you solve it.

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考虑问题比较单一
Single consideration

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所以面对这样的情况
So in this situation

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那就是所有的利益相关方都聚集在一起
That is, all the stakeholders come together.

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这里边有很多照片
There are many pictures in it.

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我就选了几张
I just picked a few

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这是原来我说的司长
This is what I said about the chief secretary

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他现在是九州大学工学部的教授
He is now a professor in the department of engineering at Kyushu university.

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在学校里边专门有这样的模拟实验室
There are special simulation laboratories in the school.

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把所有的利益相关方叫到一起
Bring all the stakeholders together

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通过模拟实验
Through simulation experiments

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然后看看分红和生态保护能不能做到同时兼顾
Then see if dividends and ecological protection can be achieved at the same time.

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最终通过各种实验实现了这个目的
Finally, through various experiments to achieve this goal.

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也就是说你如果直接分红
In other words, if you pay a dividend directly.

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水位的变化
Change of water level

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外贸的部分就没有了
There will be no part of foreign trade.

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但是对于还有三太阳系来说
But for three more solar systems

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它是需要这样的环境
It is necessary for such an environment.

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如果这样的水利形式一旦变化掉了
If this form of water conservancy changes,

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它的栖息地也就被破坏掉了
Its habitat was destroyed.

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所以最后通过这样的模拟实验
So finally through this simulation experiment

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然后所有的利益相关方达成共识
Then all the stakeholders reach a consensus.

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我们现在看到国外很多这种获奖的大的项目
We now see many of these big projects abroad.

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也是一定要利益相关方的参与
It is also necessary to participate in the stakeholders.

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我们现在社会也在进步
Our society is also making progress now.

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最近态度流域也很多
Recently, there are also many attitude basins.

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我看狠毒枕木也是有一些ng
I think there is also some ng in the hard poison pillow.

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ONPO也就代表公众的一些团体参与进来
Onpo also represents some groups of the public.

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那么最后它分红的这种就不是很简单的
So in the end, this kind of dividend is not very simple.

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它是经过了很精密的计算
It's a very sophisticated calculation

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就是只有水费达到这个程度的时候才让他分红
It is only when the water bill reaches this level that he is allowed to pay dividends.

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并且后来的事实也证明了这种既解决了内涝的问题
And later facts have proved that this has solved the problem of waterlogging.

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同时也解决了这里边有很多物种的多样性的保护的问题
It also solves the problem of protecting the diversity of many species.

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还有就是我14年去欧洲开会
And I went to Europe for a meeting in 14 years.

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这也是最后去现场看他们的获奖的项目
This is also the last time to go to the scene to see their winning project.

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那么在奥地利的维也纳开会
Then a meeting in Vienna, Austria

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刚好这一年获奖
It is just this year that I won the prize.

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就是奥地利的一条木耳和这个时间我们就简单说一下
It's an Austrian fungus and we'll talk about it briefly at this time.

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在它东南部的一条河流规模大概是450多公里
A river in the southeast is about 450 kilometers in size.

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因为欧洲国家比较小
Because European countries are smaller

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但是你看
But you see

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19世纪1879
1879 century

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这个过程当中
In the process

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就当时只考虑效率化
Only efficiency was considered at that time.

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所以把支流逐渐的一个是台湾曲直
So one of the tributaries is the Taiwan curve.

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就是这些自然的水纹运动形成的河流分叉
It is these natural water patterns that form the bifurcation of the river.

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实际上它生态上都是有重要功能的
In fact, it has important ecological functions.

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你看每年的变化就逐渐都把它卸掉
You see, every year the change is gradually removed.

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变成很单一的
Become very single

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当然这样形容的效率很高
Of course, the efficiency is very high.

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但是其他的功能就被削弱掉
But other functions are weakened.

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所以后来又沿河建电站
So later, the power station was built along the river.

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但是后来到了六七十年代的时候
But then in the '60s and' 70s

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是成为欧洲最脏的一条河流之一
Is one of the dirtiest rivers in Europe

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是由于各种人为干预建设
It is due to all kinds of human intervention.

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前面我讲的各种资金功能丧失掉了
The various capital functions I mentioned earlier have been lost.

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生态系统也破坏掉
The ecosystem is also destroyed.

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再一个加上污染
Plus one plus pollution

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实际上我们现在国内很多也是很类似的
In fact, many of us are very similar in our country now.

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所以我们说重蹈覆辙
So we say we repeat the mistakes

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这个是有的时候
This is sometimes

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想避免
Want to avoid

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还不是一件很容易的事情
It's not easy yet.

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但是规划恰恰可能可以在这方面发挥很重要的作用
But planning can play a very important role in this regard.

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然后这里边采取各种各样的综合措施
Then there are a variety of integrated measures.

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就是各种问题的都在地图上表示出来
All kinds of problems are shown on the map.

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特别是大量的这种保护恢复的区域重点保护的区域等等
In particular, a large number of such protection, the restoration of the regional focus on the protection of the region, and so on.

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那么最终我觉得给大家展示的就是说
So in the end, I think what I'm going to show you is that

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也是通过各个利益相关方的参与
It is also through the participation of various stakeholders.

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在各个层面的参与
Participation at all levels

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形成了综合的治理规划
Formed a comprehensive governance plan.

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然后就按这个治理
And then we do this

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所以规划重要就重要在这
So planning is important here

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但是规划不能光靠我们去想
But planning can't depend on us alone.

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还是要征求方方面面的意见
We still have to ask for opinions from all sides.

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当然也有说法
Of course, there is also a saying.

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就征求方方面面利益相关方
To solicit all stakeholders

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实际上是一个很艰难的工作
It's actually a very difficult job.

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不过这个工作起码在发展国家来说
But at least in developing countries.

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它是发挥了重要的作用
It is playing an important role.

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然后作为我们高校来说
And then as for our colleges

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主要还是在技术科学支撑方面
Mainly in the technical and scientific support.

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最后形成治理规划
Finally form the management plan.

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那么最终我的选篇首先是恢复河畔的空间
So in the end, my choice is to restore the space on the river.

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植被
Vegetation

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因为一切生态系统的前面
Because the front of all ecosystems

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我说三个完整性
I say three integrals

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就是有空间
Is that there is space

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有植被
Vegetation

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才能去形成或者恢复良好的水源循环
To form or restore good water circulation.

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离开了植被
Leave the vegetation

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植被是一个非常重要的基础
Vegetation is a very important foundation.

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反过来说
On the other hand

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能源的来源如何
What are the sources of energy?

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利用好太阳能恢复好植被
Make good use of solar energy to restore good vegetation

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是一个重要的基础工作
Is an important foundation work.

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然后这里边各种各样的生物植被恢复好了
Then all kinds of biological vegetation recovered along the way.

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河畔空间这种复杂的地形地貌
The complex topography of the riverside space.

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按照过去的古迹图恢复好了
It has been restored in accordance with the historical maps.

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那么各种各样的生物也就得到了很好的恢复
Then all kinds of living things have been well recovered.

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这是它的一些洄游的鱼类
This is some of its migratory fish.

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大头鱼
Cephalopholis maculatus

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马哈鱼就是归于
Mahalis

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在欧洲很别在北美都很有代表性的
Very different in Europe and very typical in north America.

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包括各种鸟类的恢复
Including the recovery of all kinds of birds

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翠鸟啄木鸟
Kingfisher

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黑鹳等等我去参观的那个地方
Black Stork, wait for the place I visited.

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最后它的一个数据
Finally, one of its data.

195
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这个数据很能说明鸟类恢复到50多种
This data shows that birds have recovered to more than 50 species.

196
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那么支撑鸟类的鱼类恢复到200多种
So the fish that supports the birds have recovered to over 200 species.

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支撑鱼类的各种各样的底气生物
Any of various organisms that support fish.

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恢复到2000多种
Recover to more than 2000 species

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那么再往下数据这个更加的庞大
So the data is much bigger.

200
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他们就是用这么一些数据代表你综合治理规划
They are using some data to represent your comprehensive planning.

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从生物这些指示的数据来说明很能说明这方面的问题
From the biological indicators of the data to illustrate this very much.

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这个是我们做的一些工作
This is some of the work we do.

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恢复的
Restored

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应该冲到包括营农村
Should rush to the villages including the camps

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河里都是我们设计
We designed the river

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但是实际上我们设计的一些东西
But actually something we designed

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后来执行过程当中有一些变样
Later, there were some changes in the execution process.

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它主要是说受到土地约束的限制
It is mainly said to be restricted by land.

209
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我们现在城市河流建很多问题也都是最后跟行政部门打交道都是受到
We are now urban river construction, many problems are also the last to deal with the administrative departments are subject to.

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土地的约束
Land restraint

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那么还讲为什么生态系统重要
So why is the ecosystem important?

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我们跟日本荆州大学九州大学做了一个连续五年的围绕太湖流域的
We worked with Kyushu university in Japan for five years in a row around the Taihu lake basin.

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合作
Cooperation

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因为太湖07年已爆发水华以后中日就是07年胡锦涛访日的时候
After the outbreak of water bloom in 2007 in Taihu lake, China and Japan were the time when Hu Jintao visited Japan in 2007.

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达成了一个环境领域合作的共识
Reached a consensus on cooperation in the field of environment.

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然后九州大学因为离中国最近
Then Kyushu university because it is nearest to China.

217
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他是在九州
He is in Kyushu.

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刚好前两天地震
Just two days before the earthquake.

219
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因为中国最近他们专门成立了一个东亚问题的校长
Because recently in China, they have set up a special headmaster for east Asia.

220
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就大学的校长牵头重要问题的研究项目
Lead research projects on important issues with the rector of the university

221
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页一一丝的HRUIM普洱
A trace of hruim pu

222
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然后选择太湖流域
Then choose the Taihu lake basin.

223
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刚好我原来研究室的教授
It happened to be my former professor in the lab

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他东大很著名的一个教授
A well-known professor of his east university.

225
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我们就围绕湖泊和河流开展了合作
We cooperated around lakes and rivers.

226
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那么这是太湖最大的一个入湖河流东调西
Well, this is the largest river in Taihu lake.

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横跨是湖州市和杭州市
Across is the city of Huzhou and Hangzhou.

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两个层次
Two levels

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这里面我们做了五年非常细致的一些工作
We have done some very detailed work in this for five years.

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最后当然这项工作在国际湿地大会上得到了非常好的赞扬
Finally, of course, the work was very well praised at the international wetlands conference.

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发现鉴定出了84种鱼类
It was found that 84 species of fish were identified.

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并且发现了一些新的种类
And found some new species.

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这是一些鱼类
These are some fish.

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就是野生的桂鱼
The wild Mandarin fish

235
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特别是有一些鱼类
In particular, there are some fish.

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因为合作研究日本的专家感到在中国能够发现他们都非常惊喜
Experts in Japan are surprised to find them in China.

237
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非常的震惊
Very shocked

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也就是日本在过去开发过程无意识的一些人为干预建设过程
That is, Japan in the past development process, some unconscious human intervention in the construction process.

239
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让一些鱼类栖息地环境破坏了
Some fish habitats have been destroyed.

240
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然后鱼类灭绝了
Then the fish went extinct.

241
00:15:04.100 --> 00:15:09.870
比如说像这里边有几种旁听于它必须产卵
For example, there are several kinds of spectators around here, and they have to lay eggs.

242
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一定产在合办的体内
Must be in a joint body

243
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河蚌的栖息环境如果破坏了
If the habitat of the river trout is destroyed

244
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庞碧云也就没办法生存
Pang Biyun can't survive.

245
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所以日本过去的很多河流建设
So Japan used to build a lot of rivers

246
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人为的构造构筑太多
Too many artificial structures

247
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那么他们有一些专家听说了以后
Then some of their experts heard about it.

248
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中国可以发现很多种类这样的一类自费
China can find many kinds of such a kind at its own expense.

249
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并且利用自己的休假时间过来一起参加调查
And used their vacation time to come and join the survey.

250
00:15:37.160 --> 00:15:43.400
这也是代表了特别是有一些水族馆的一些研究人员代表对自然科学对
It is also represented, especially by some aquarium researchers, who represent the natural sciences.

251
00:15:43.400 --> 00:15:45.240
生态科学的一种执着
An obsession with ecological science

252
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那么都好多的
So much

253
00:16:00.390 --> 00:16:05.810
这个图是世界上很权威的关于类的一个这套贝斯
This diagram is one of the most authoritative classes in the world.

254
00:16:06.140 --> 00:16:08.650
这里边大家可以看的出来
You can see it here.

255
00:16:08.840 --> 00:16:12.070
但是鱼类中国是居首位
But fish China is the top.

256
00:16:12.360 --> 00:16:13.610
美国低于一千
The United States is less than one thousand

257
00:16:13.610 --> 00:16:15.040
我们是超过一千的
We are over one thousand

258
00:16:15.270 --> 00:16:17.180
当然这个数字也在变化
Of course, the number is changing.

259
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因为对自然的这种认知还是在变化过程当中
Because this understanding of nature is still in the process of change.

260
00:16:21.280 --> 00:16:31.230
比如我们参加整个14年在九州参加一个整个全球的生物安全会议的
For example, we attended a global biosafety conference in Kyushu for 14 years.

261
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时候
Time

262
00:16:32.000 --> 00:16:35.380
湄公河流域有一个管理委员会
There is a management committee in the Mekong river basin.

263
00:16:35.570 --> 00:16:38.430
他们不断的在发现新的种类
They are constantly discovering new species.

264
00:16:39.190 --> 00:16:44.720
湄公河流域也是一个就是洪水贫乏频繁
The Mekong river basin is also one where floods are scarce and frequent.

265
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但是生物多样性也非常丰富的这么一个区域
But biodiversity is also very rich in such a region.

266
00:16:50.370 --> 00:16:55.430
而且中国的淡水鱼的70%是生活在河流的
And 70% of China's freshwater fish live in rivers.

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就是不同的物种
Are different species

268
00:16:57.290 --> 00:16:59.880
它选择的栖息地环境是不一样的
It chooses a different habitat environment.

269
00:17:00.290 --> 00:17:03.380
所以我们不要以为一类只要有了河流
So let's not think of one kind as long as there is a river.

270
00:17:03.380 --> 00:17:04.760
有了水就可以生存了
With water, we can live.

271
00:17:05.260 --> 00:17:06.510
这是绝对的
This is absolute

272
00:17:06.770 --> 00:17:08.050
错误的概念
False concept

273
00:17:10.030 --> 00:17:19.030
那么我们在整个领域做了很多这种跟环境因子这样的相互关系的分析
So we have done a lot of analysis of this interrelation with environmental factors in the whole field.

274
00:17:19.440 --> 00:17:23.250
比如跟挺水植物的关系
For example, the relationship with water plants.

275
00:17:24.210 --> 00:17:27.330
所以表现出不是那么特别的明显
So it's not that obvious

276
00:17:27.330 --> 00:17:29.420
表现出一定的正相关
Show some positive correlation

277
00:17:29.690 --> 00:17:34.110
但是跟沉水植物的这种正相关关系就非常的明显
But the positive correlation with submerged plants is very clear.

278
00:17:34.380 --> 00:17:36.840
不管它的生物量
Regardless of its biomass

279
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还是它的物种多样性
Or its species diversity

280
00:17:38.230 --> 00:17:41.460
都表现出非常好的这种正相关关系
Both show very good positive correlation.

281
00:17:41.710 --> 00:17:45.990
比如河流沉水植物比较风貌的这样的水域
Such waters as the waterlogged plants of a river.

282
00:17:46.250 --> 00:17:53.380
鱼类的物种多样性和它的鱼类的数量就比较多
The species diversity of fish and its number of fish.

283
00:17:55.160 --> 00:17:57.550
但是像这些浮叶植物
But like these floating leaves

284
00:17:59.110 --> 00:18:07.530
发现它是在覆盖的盖度呢大概低于50%的时候是正相关
It is found to be positively correlated when the coverage is about 50%.

285
00:18:07.530 --> 00:18:10.000
超过以后是付相龙
After that, it was fuxianglong.

286
00:18:10.000 --> 00:18:12.860
后来我们在东太湖也发现了这样的一个规律
Later, we found such a rule in the east Taihu lake.

287
00:18:13.520 --> 00:18:15.730
浮叶植物太茂密了以后
After the foliage is too thick

288
00:18:15.960 --> 00:18:18.690
反而会影响水中的溶解氧
Instead, it affects dissolved oxygen in the water.

289
00:18:18.690 --> 00:18:19.850
影响光照
Influence illumination

290
00:18:19.850 --> 00:18:22.090
影响下面的其他水生植物
Affect other aquatic plants below

291
00:18:24.340 --> 00:18:25.950
在一个跟浊度
In a following turbidity

292
00:18:25.950 --> 00:18:36.370
由于据说上海城市建设的70%以上的这些建筑的材料都来自于流域
As it is said that Shanghai urban construction of 70% of these building materials are from the river basin.

293
00:18:36.370 --> 00:18:37.340
的矿山开采
Mining

294
00:18:37.340 --> 00:18:39.320
所以河流浊度非常高
So the river has a very high turbidity

295
00:18:40.860 --> 00:18:51.330
那么我们发现跟着陆鱼类的量或者物种多样性跟浊度是负相关程度
So we found that the amount or species diversity of land fishes is negatively correlated with turbidity.

296
00:18:51.330 --> 00:18:52.510
非常严重
Very serious

297
00:18:52.700 --> 00:18:54.310
但是有两点很突出
But two things stand out

298
00:18:54.310 --> 00:18:55.110
这五种关系
These five relationships

299
00:18:55.110 --> 00:18:55.840
你看
You see

300
00:18:56.360 --> 00:18:58.540
这两点就是因为有泛红区
These two points are because there are red areas.

301
00:18:58.800 --> 00:19:03.090
也就是我们所谓的河畔斯D她就是比较特殊
That's what we call the river bass d. She's special.

302
00:19:03.530 --> 00:19:07.170
说明了刚才我那张断面图上
That explains my profile just now

303
00:19:07.990 --> 00:19:10.440
河畔的复杂的地形地貌
... the complex topography of the river.

304
00:19:10.440 --> 00:19:11.740
河畔的空间
Riverside space

305
00:19:12.030 --> 00:19:22.490
对于很多鱼类的这种并或者说在某种这种比如说现在人为干预比较
For many fish of this kind, or in some kind, for example, human intervention is now compared.

306
00:19:22.490 --> 00:19:24.170
严重的时期
Severe period

307
00:19:24.730 --> 00:19:28.170
它的生存是很重要的
Its survival is very important.

308
00:19:29.070 --> 00:19:30.390
那就启示我们
Then we will be enlightened

309
00:19:30.560 --> 00:19:33.470
因为现在中国还没有进入后工业
Because now China has not entered the post-industrial.

310
00:19:33.690 --> 00:19:39.410
所以能够在流域当中保护好这样的一些区域
So we can protect some of these areas in the basin.

311
00:19:39.730 --> 00:19:43.290
对于保护好物种是有非常重要的作用
It is very important to protect the species.